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Post by CaptainSeery on Sept 29, 2016 11:49:31 GMT 9
Per Mumblesnore 's request. Like I said in puramai I am not used to poetry. This is also a very rough first draft that I just banged out. Especially the なぜ 今 ことさら verse I am very unsure about. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions you have! | 忘れたいこと | Wanting to Forget | 人々は
あの残酷な
そして
哀しい「水俣」を忘れるため
必死なように
「日の丸」
「君が代」
二十世紀の負の遺産としては
早く忘れたいのかもしれない
新生「水俣」のために
新生「水俣」のために
しかし
忘れようと焦れば焦るほど
「水俣」は甦り
「日の丸」
「君が代」は
いよいよその存在を
際立たせる
皮肉なものだ
なぜ 今 ことさら
「水俣」なのか
なぜ 今 ことさら
「日の丸」
「君が代」なのか
恐れる人々は
「水俣」を苦々しく反芻し
「日の丸」
「君が代」を訝る
そして
「人間」の犯した罪に
我が身を呪うのだ
真実を語り継がねば
同じ過ちは
地獄の底から頭をもたげ始め
再び 残忍な殺し合いを始める
歴史の愚鈍さは
その「知る」人間にとっては
まさに好都合なのだ
そして
あきらめ顔に嘆息しつつ
歴史を弄ぶ
忘れたいことほど
忘れてはならないという
たった一つの
歴史の「真実」 | For people
To forget
That cruel and
Heartrending Minamata
The Rising Sun Flag
The anthem Kimigayo
Our ignominious legacy of the twentieth century
Maybe you want to forget it all quickly
Desperately
For a reborn Minamata
For a reborn Minamata
But
The more you rush to forget
Minamata is resurrected
The Rising Sun Flag
The anthem Kimigayo
More and more their existence
Is a striking form of
Irony
Why now deliberately
Minamata
Why now deliberately
The Rising Sun
Kimigayo
Fearful people
Ruminate bitterly over Minamata
And doubt the Rising Sun
And Kimigayo
While
The sins committed by human beings
Cast a curse upon ourselves
We have to tell the truth
The same mistakes
Begin to raise their heads from hell
Begin a cycle of death a second time
The stupidity of history
For people who know
It is indeed convenient
And
They toy with history
Lamenting over those who give in
The single truth
Of history
The more you want to forget
The more you must remember |
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Mumblesnore
Dead Stargod 
’Tis the season (for Eggnog)
Posts: 16,153 
CIR Experience: Former CIR
Location: Tokyo
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Post by Mumblesnore on Sept 29, 2016 11:51:22 GMT 9
I'll look at this during lunch! (so i don't feel too guilty about procrastinating)
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Post by marudate on Sept 29, 2016 11:54:32 GMT 9
I will add a request for help:
「神の代に 神の通いし 道なれや 雲井に続く 天橋立」
which I tentatively translated as:
“In the age of the gods deities passed through on this familiar road, Amanohashidate”
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Nurkiras
Dead Stargod
Nawty Bard
ycdn
Posts: 8,401
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Post by Nurkiras on Sept 29, 2016 12:01:19 GMT 9
CaptainSeery I think that reads really well and gets the tone across especially. One suggestion: I would do 歴史の愚鈍さは as "The folly of history"; that sounds more poetic to me than stupidity
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Mumblesnore
Dead Stargod
’Tis the season (for Eggnog)
Posts: 16,153
CIR Experience: Former CIR
Location: Tokyo
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Post by Mumblesnore on Sept 29, 2016 12:39:32 GMT 9
I think "why now" might be better than "why now deliberately"
And I wonder if it would be more effective to just say "the anthem" "the flag" instead of keeping the Japanese intact. I haven't reached a conclusion, but it's something I was thinking about.
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Post by CaptainSeery on Sept 29, 2016 13:20:50 GMT 9
Yeah, honestly the "why now deliberately" was just a placeholder, literally translating each word in that line. I wonder about the なのか in the following line too... Suggestions? I 悩むed a lot about how to translate 日の丸 and 君が代. I tried to go for something a little more poetic than just "the anthem" and "the flag." But I'm not super happy with what I have (especially for 君が代). Nurkiras Yes good idea! |
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Mumblesnore
Dead Stargod
’Tis the season (for Eggnog)
Posts: 16,153
CIR Experience: Former CIR
Location: Tokyo
|
Post by Mumblesnore on Sept 29, 2016 13:24:43 GMT 9
Yeah, honestly the "why now deliberately" was just a placeholder, literally translating each word in that line. I wonder about the なのか in the following line too... Suggestions? I 悩むed a lot about how to translate 日の丸 and 君が代. I tried to go for something a little more poetic than just "the anthem" and "the flag." But I'm not super happy with what I have (especially for 君が代). Nurkiras Yes good idea! I think having "the anthem" and "the flag" can make it a more general poem and open it up to talking about grief and war and national identity in general, as opposed to being just "this is Japan's story", which can be a good thing but can also be not what the poet is going for. |
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Post by CaptainSeery on Sept 29, 2016 13:30:33 GMT 9
The poem is about Minamata disease, which is specifically a thing that happened in Japan. So I think the poet was going for specifics, rather than in general.
I do agree that it is a poem that could very easily be talking about human folly in a wider sense, but the repeated name of Minamata seems to bring it home to a very specific location and event.
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Nurkiras
Dead Stargod
Nawty Bard
ycdn
Posts: 8,401
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Post by Nurkiras on Sept 29, 2016 14:09:15 GMT 9
I like "why now"
as for the なのか how about "...of all...", as in
"Why now
Minamata, of all places
Why now
The Rising Sun and
Kimigayo, of all things"
edit: maybe "of all things" is superfluous
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Post by no yark shark on Sept 29, 2016 15:40:00 GMT 9
Per Mumblesnore 's request. Like I said in puramai I am not used to poetry. This is also a very rough first draft that I just banged out. Especially the なぜ 今 ことさら verse I am very unsure about. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions you have! | 忘れたいこと | Wanting to Forget | 人々は
あの残酷な
そして
哀しい「水俣」を忘れるため
必死なように
「日の丸」
「君が代」
二十世紀の負の遺産としては
早く忘れたいのかもしれない
新生「水俣」のために
新生「水俣」のために
しかし
忘れようと焦れば焦るほど
「水俣」は甦り
「日の丸」
「君が代」は
いよいよその存在を
際立たせる
皮肉なものだ
なぜ 今 ことさら
「水俣」なのか
なぜ 今 ことさら
「日の丸」
「君が代」なのか
恐れる人々は
「水俣」を苦々しく反芻し
「日の丸」
「君が代」を訝る
そして
「人間」の犯した罪に
我が身を呪うのだ
真実を語り継がねば
同じ過ちは
地獄の底から頭をもたげ始め
再び 残忍な殺し合いを始める
歴史の愚鈍さは
その「知る」人間にとっては
まさに好都合なのだ
そして
あきらめ顔に嘆息しつつ
歴史を弄ぶ
忘れたいことほど
忘れてはならないという
たった一つの
歴史の「真実」 | For people
To forget
That cruel and
Heartrending Minamata
The Rising Sun Flag,
The anthem Kimigayo,
Our ignominious legacy of the twentieth century
Maybe you want to forget it all quickly,
Desperately,
For a reborn Minamata
For a reborn Minamata
But,
The more you rush to forget,
Minamata is resurrected
The Rising Sun Flag,
The anthem Kimigayo,
More and more, their existence
Is a striking form of
Irony
Why now, deliberately
Minamata
Why now, deliberately
The Rising Sun
Kimigayo
Fearful people
Ruminate bitterly over Minamata
And doubt the Rising Sun,
And Kimigayo,
While
The sins committed by human beings mankind
Cast a curse upon ourselves
We have to tell the truth,
Or else the same mistakes
Will begin to raise their heads rear their ugly heads from hell,
Beginning the cycle of death a second time
The stupidity of history
For people who know,
It is indeed convenient
And
They toy with history,
Lamenting over those who give in
The single truth
Of history
The more you want to forget,
The more you must remember |
just a few wording suggestions. I think you did a good job overall. Also I would add some commas to emphasize pauses and maybe some italics. |
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Post by CaptainSeery on Sept 29, 2016 16:08:51 GMT 9
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Post by CaptainSeery on Nov 16, 2016 9:03:16 GMT 9
Okay! I have two more poems I've been asked to translate. These are shorter and more abstract and I'm probably missing the whole point of them. So I feel very not happy with my 直訳すぎ translations. 柱時計
ぼくが
死んでからでも
十二時がきたら 十二
鳴るのかい
苦労するなあ
まあいいや
しっかり鳴って
おくれ
| Grandfather Clock
Even after
I die
Will you strike twelve
At twelve o’clock?
It’s hard work I guess
Oh well
Please keep working
To keep the time
| 死算
じつは
大きな声では云へないが
過去の長さと
未来の長さとは
同じなんだ
死んでごらん
よくわかる。 | Death Countdown
I can’t say it out loud
But actually,
The length of the past and
The length of the future
Are the same
Go ahead, try dying
You’ll understand. |
Any suggestions? And really, any suggestions for translating poetry in general? It's such a different beast from the types of translations I usually do. Once again I am feeling the limits of my own English ability... |
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Post by no yark shark on Feb 6, 2017 13:42:25 GMT 9
anyone wanna help me translate the second half of the poem from the Statue of Liberty? I'd like to put it in my column but translating poetry is hard. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door! |
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Post by CaptainSeery on Feb 6, 2017 13:47:45 GMT 9
I feel like there must be a translation of this out there somewhere...
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Post by no yark shark on Feb 6, 2017 13:51:08 GMT 9
I tried searching but I only found peoples' blogs and I want something more official than that.
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Post by CaptainSeery on Feb 6, 2017 13:51:21 GMT 9
For example ameblo.jp/toratokotori14/entry-11513647820.htmlIt's an ameblo, so I don't know if the blogger translated it or if they found it somewhere, but 「私が受け入れるのは、疲れた人 貧困にあえぐ人、 自由を切望しながら身を寄せ合う民衆 他国の海岸で惨めに拒否されるたくさんの人々 彼らをどうぞ、わたしのもとへ。 嵐にもまれて身の置き所も無い彼らを、 わたしはここで， 黄金の扉の前で、 明かりを持って待ち続ける！」 Of course if it's not an official translation you probably shouldn't publish it... |
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Post by CaptainSeery on Feb 6, 2017 13:51:57 GMT 9
I tried searching but I only found peoples' blogs and I want something more official than that. Ah, yes.
I will try applying my Googlefu! (Not like I have anything better to do)
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Mumblesnore
Dead Stargod
’Tis the season (for Eggnog)
Posts: 16,153
CIR Experience: Former CIR
Location: Tokyo
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Post by Mumblesnore on Feb 6, 2017 13:53:07 GMT 9
I found this:
古代ギリシャ、ロードス島の港の入り口に、
いかめしく聳え立っていたという有名なコロッサスとは、まるで違う
海に洗われ、夕日に染まるわがアメリカの港には
力強い女性がたつ。彼女は、稲妻を閉じ込めた松明を掲げる
「亡命者たちの母」―その右手は、
歓迎の光で港を照らし、二つの街の空気に包まれ、
優しく港を見渡す。「わがもの顔にふるまってきた古い国々よ
その仰々しい歴史はそのままに！」と動かぬ唇で
彼女はいう。「私が受け入れるのは、疲れた人
貧困にあえぐ人、自由を切望しながら身を寄せ合う民衆
他国の海岸で惨めに拒否されるたくさんの人々
彼らをどうぞ、わたしのもとへ。嵐にもまれて身の置き所も無い彼らを、わたしはここで，
黄金の扉の前で、明かりを持って待ち続ける！」
edit: hue I'm late
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Post by CaptainSeery on Feb 6, 2017 13:58:44 GMT 9
Found this on the American embassy's page:
「疲れし者、貧しき者を我に与えよ。自由の空気を吸わんと熱望する人たちよ。身を寄せ合う哀れな人たちよ。住む家なく、嵐にもまれし者を我に送りたまえ。我は、黄金の扉にて灯を掲げん」－「ザ・ニュー・コロッサス」（エマ・ラザラス）
(http://amview.japan.usembassy.gov/refugees-in-us/)
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Post by no yark shark on Feb 6, 2017 14:00:17 GMT 9
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Post by no yark shark on Feb 6, 2017 14:02:55 GMT 9
Found this on the American embassy's page: 「疲れし者、貧しき者を我に与えよ。自由の空気を吸わんと熱望する人たちよ。身を寄せ合う哀れな人たちよ。住む家なく、嵐にもまれし者を我に送りたまえ。我は、黄金の扉にて灯を掲げん」－「ザ・ニュー・コロッサス」（エマ・ラザラス） (http://amview.japan.usembassy.gov/refugees-in-us/) hm it would be nice if it had the translator's name so I could put that on there.. |
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Post by CaptainSeery on Feb 6, 2017 14:03:50 GMT 9
americancenterjapan.com/aboutusa/profile/1736/ Same translation as above, about halfway down the page. The one on excite seems a bit more 意訳的 but it's a nice translation. I feel like the embassy one is the most "official" one I've found though, if you're looking for that.
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Post by CaptainSeery on Feb 6, 2017 14:05:58 GMT 9
Found this on the American embassy's page: 「疲れし者、貧しき者を我に与えよ。自由の空気を吸わんと熱望する人たちよ。身を寄せ合う哀れな人たちよ。住む家なく、嵐にもまれし者を我に送りたまえ。我は、黄金の扉にて灯を掲げん」－「ザ・ニュー・コロッサス」（エマ・ラザラス） (http://amview.japan.usembassy.gov/refugees-in-us/) hm it would be nice if it had the translator's name so I could put that on there.. I found that page because I found another site that had quoted part of it and put "在日米大使館訳" as the translator. And it's the Asahi Shinbun so it's not like some random dude's blog that's just like "welp good enough."
globe.asahi.com/terminal/110904/01_02.html
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Post by Shimanchu 2024 on Nov 29, 2021 10:13:30 GMT 9
I reported them
Edit: It would be funny to translate a poem about hydroxychloroquine tho, hue
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Post by miscreative on Nov 29, 2021 10:14:20 GMT 9
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