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Post by miscreative on Oct 26, 2016 9:55:21 GMT 9
This thread is not about how to translate a specific word or phrase- this is for talking about your process and things that help you to do this part of your job.
write out your steps. share info about translation theory. discuss!
I mainly started this because i got stuck. I had finished a very very rough draft of a translation. i came back to it 2 days later and had to decide whether to check for nice/intelligible english first or check that the english properly matches the japanese...
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Mumblesnore
Dead Stargod 
’Tis the season (for Eggnog)
Posts: 16,153 
CIR Experience: Former CIR
Location: Tokyo
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Post by Mumblesnore on Oct 26, 2016 11:30:23 GMT 9
I like to delete the japanese bit by bit as I translate, until it's all gone, and then I fine tune the English just as it's own thing, without having the original Japanese to compare to.
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Post by miscreative on Oct 26, 2016 11:53:18 GMT 9
sometimes i will copy and paste the paragraph below it (so i have 2) and i do that "replace the japanese with english, bit by bit as i go" thing while still having the original for context. i particularly do this when it is long/complicated/difficult words
this depends on the formatting tho, pretty much only word allows for it (so long as there are no weird formatting things going on)
for my overall process is:
~open up all of the files (including reference docs)
~skim over to see what i have and what this 依頼 is about
~if it is a native check, i will copy the original english (into a new column if it is in excel) and edit that (so i can see the original japanese and english while making my edits). if i can/do not want to do that, i will just turn on the "track edits" function (or do it manually)
~as i translate i will replace the japanese with english, bit by bit as i go (as i explained above)
~as i go i will highlight or change the font color of places i need to revisit. sometimes i will leave the japanese そのまま and keep going
~i will ask my super for clarification (but more and more she is sending me straight to the 依頼者)
~i will compile my list of questions and call/email the 依頼者
~go back and make sure everything is translated
~perform spell check
~~leave it for a day (if possible)~~
~print and read, making notes in the margins and correcting the file as i go. looking at the japanese to compare my english to the original and make sure everything is there. point for point. (やり過ぎないように)
~~leave it for a day (if possible)~~
~print and read, making notes in the margins and correcting the file as i go (again. this step can happen multiple times at multiple points in the process) checking the english as a stand alone. fluency, accuracy, mechanics, etc. rinse and repeat as needed until there are no other changes. for best results, after you have reached the "no other changes" step, let it sit for a day and come back to it to make sure you arent just super used to it.
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Post by momo black on Oct 26, 2016 15:22:57 GMT 9
sometimes i will copy and paste the paragraph below it (so i have 2) and i do that "replace the japanese with english, bit by bit as i go" thing while still having the original for context. i particularly do this when it is long/complicated/difficult words I do this very often! I have to acknowledge that compared to your process I have probably not been doing due diligence ;w; I usually do a copy paste like this (paragraph by paragraph if it's very complicated, or just the original document in one window and the new one next to it). First I translate sort of clause by clause, not worrying about the syntax of the English, just making sure all the meanings in the Japanese are becoming English. Then, I look at the jumble of English that I have made and turn it into the most simple, sense-making sentence that comes to mind upon reading it. Then I check that English back with the Japanese. |
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Post by CaptainSeery on Oct 26, 2016 15:43:18 GMT 9
sometimes i will copy and paste the paragraph below it (so i have 2) and i do that "replace the japanese with english, bit by bit as i go" thing while still having the original for context. i particularly do this when it is long/complicated/difficult words I do this very often! I have to acknowledge that compared to your process I have probably not been doing due diligence ;w; I usually do a copy paste like this (paragraph by paragraph if it's very complicated, or just the original document in one window and the new one next to it). First I translate sort of clause by clause, not worrying about the syntax of the English, just making sure all the meanings in the Japanese are becoming English. Then, I look at the jumble of English that I have made and turn it into the most simple, sense-making sentence that comes to mind upon reading it. Then I check that English back with the Japanese. Yeah, this is basically what my process is! |
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Post by The Occasional Freighnos on Oct 27, 2016 14:10:42 GMT 9
I like to print out the Japanese and have it in front of me to refer to without having to switch tabs as I write the English. Then when I finish my first draft, I put the Japanese away and just read through the English and make changes until it sounds as natural as I can make it.
Something I've noticed by paying attention to other people's translations or even the examples from the T&I textbooks is that I tend to stick too close to the Japanese original and not deviate. That's fine for a technical translation but if it's an AISATSU or something fluffy like that it's OK to make a few cuts or additions of your own to make it sound nice as long as all the important bits are in there.
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Post by miscreative on Oct 27, 2016 14:15:01 GMT 9
sometimes i will copy and paste the paragraph below it (so i have 2) and i do that "replace the japanese with english, bit by bit as i go" thing while still having the original for context. i particularly do this when it is long/complicated/difficult words I do this very often! I have to acknowledge that compared to your process I have probably not been doing due diligence ;w; I usually do a copy paste like this (paragraph by paragraph if it's very complicated, or just the original document in one window and the new one next to it). First I translate sort of clause by clause, not worrying about the syntax of the English, just making sure all the meanings in the Japanese are becoming English. Then, I look at the jumble of English that I have made and turn it into the most simple, sense-making sentence that comes to mind upon reading it. Then I check that English back with the Japanese. i remember it being a method/tip i was told during... orientation? i think this process is my "if i had to write out my ideal process which yields the most thorough/polished work" process. this is definitely not a once size fits all sort of thing. often sometimes i do not have time to do the "leave it for a day" because of the time constraints and all that, for example. that bit about printing it out was /required/ by my super. she would not accept it until i had done a printed paper check. but it never fails that you print it once, make your changes, print it again, catch something else.... (hence the "repeat until no more changes" bit) yea, if it is a harder sentence i totally do what you do... but i think i usually expend a lot of mental energy doing the "simple translate" and "making sound good" at the same time. i mean, the pro to that is you dont have to come back to an idea, you are already on it and not bouncing around... tho the con would be that you have just one thing on your mind and can get tired? sometimes you need to mix it up. doing it one way might night get the gears turning, but you come at it a different way and words just start coming. (which is another reason why i thought this thread might be fun) |
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Post by CaptainSeery on Oct 27, 2016 15:15:05 GMT 9
I prefer to have both on my computer screen for the early stages - I open two Word files and keep them side by side. I don't make any edits to the original file, but then copy and paste it into a separate document. Then I'll go through and do the translation (phrase by phrase if it's long and technical, looser if it's an aisatsu or something), deleting as I go. Then I compare with the original, then close the original and just look at the translated file, trying to make it sound more natural. I do prefer to print it out and look at it that way, towards the end of my process. And I'm like you, The Occasional Freighnos - I think I can be a bit too literal in my translation sometimes. I wish I had more of a gift for writing because that would help me immensely... |
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Post by miscreative on Oct 27, 2016 15:33:43 GMT 9
I prefer to have both on my computer screen for the early stages - I open two Word files and keep them side by side. I don't make any edits to the original file, but then copy and paste it into a separate document. Then I'll go through and do the translation (phrase by phrase if it's long and technical, looser if it's an aisatsu or something), deleting as I go. Then I compare with the original, then close the original and just look at the translated file, trying to make it sound more natural. I do prefer to print it out and look at it that way, towards the end of my process. And I'm like you, The Occasional Freighnos - I think I can be a bit too literal in my translation sometimes. I wish I had more of a gift for writing because that would help me immensely...i do not think i have 同感ed with something this hard for a while i have to keep this weird balance because my super will sometimes "scold" me for being too liberal with my translation. i am not sure if it is because i am still inexperienced or what but... |
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Post by CaptainSeery on Oct 27, 2016 16:33:02 GMT 9
I feel like... I can write in an academic setting. So technical translations I can do okay. I just don't have the gift of words. So stuff doesn't sound pretty :/
I think the question of how liberal to be really depends on the situation and the audience. *shrug* It's hard to give you general advice about that. All I can really do is give advice on specific translations if I know what it is about, what it is for, and the intended audience.
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Post by miscreative on Mar 23, 2017 9:47:50 GMT 9
my pred, in the guide he made for me, recommended the following
~ Is That a Fish in Your Ear?: Translation and the Meaning of Everything by David Bellos
(and for english/editing)
~ Line by Line by Claire Kehrwald Cook
~ Woe is I by Patricia T. O’Conner
i have yet to buy them but i thought i would share
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Post by miscreative on Mar 23, 2017 13:45:51 GMT 9
these are the tips and info that my pred left me. sharing as i think others will find it useful
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Post by 🎄🌰🌰Yoosting on an open 🔥🎄 on Mar 31, 2017 9:03:18 GMT 9
Two things have been really helpful for me lately for prep-work for translation/interpretation jobs: (1) "Gensen Web" A keyword extraction tool developed by Tokyo University. Allows you to instantly get the most important vocabuary from a given text (from a webpage/pdf/copy-paste). (2) JGlossator An off-line JP-EN dictionary which can provide translations for thousands of words simultaneously and provide example sentences, all with an easy to use interface and the option of saving words to a txt file (easily convertible to excel as well, so useful for making anki decks). It's a program, but doesn't require installation, so if your work PC can spare the somewhat hefty disk space (300MB +/-) you can probably run it without restrictions. In combination with Gensen Web it is a great way to easily and quickly get vocab lists from texts online or from pdfs. Anyone else have resources to make vocab lists or to help make prep-work easier? |
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Post by starbreeze on May 15, 2019 9:47:05 GMT 9
I looked at this page once when I first started this position and I'm back to add things I've learned since gaining more experience translating. I'm not a linguist or anything and these are probably pretty obvious to most KUROUTO, but for the record... CONTEXT is super important when dealing with unknown words. Rather than relying on dictionaries I mostly look up the meaning of words based on context, especially when doing the WAYAK. These give you a targeted web search for translations: www.linguee.com/english-japanese/context.reverso.net/%E7%BF%BB%E8%A8%B3/Example sentences are also super handy for writing in English/in your native language if you need to see a word in context rather than jog your memory with a thesaurus. I found this example search engine that I happen to like but I'm sure there are plenty of others out there. Encyclopedias are obviously important when dealing with proper nouns or obscure places, historical figures, etc. The Japanese encyclopedia that I have started using recently is kotobank.jp/Of course, make use of Wikipedia's multi-lingual option too and switch between languages to find the (what I'd assume is) the most mainstream translation of a noun (for instance, search "ブリ" in Japanese and then change to English to get "Japanese amberjack" ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%96%E3%83%AA -> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_amberjack)As we all know, Wikipedia isn't 100% reliable, so it doesn't hurt to trust the power of the majority by searching for multiple translations of a word and finding the one with the most hits either. For instance, if I wasn't sure if "Japanese amberjack" or "Yellowtail" was more commonly used in working English, I might check the number of hits each brings up. Remember to make use of those boolean search functions by putting quotation marks around search terms to bring up the exact word combination. Also, Google search images is a great tool. For instance, I was not confident in the translation of 船引き網 that was coming up in dictionaries, but I searched Google search images and found out it's a lesser-used version of 2そう引き or "pair trawling" in which two boats use a net to catch fish. When all else fails, グーグル先生翻訳 has helped me get out of situations where my brain is failing to understand the syntax of a sentence. It feels shameful but it really does work... Perhaps you have better versions of these tools in your arsenal. If so, please sharing! |
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Post by Aya Raincoat on May 15, 2019 11:06:27 GMT 9
Thanks for reviving this! My process: 1- Open document and copy the text; I always work with split screen, having the Japanese on the bottom and English on top. When I have to work with, say, PPT, I'll split it left-right. (You should have a step here where you read the whole document, but I tend to skip it ^^; ) 2- I open my translation tool tabs: I'll also sporadically open other tools. For example, if translating a letter, I'll open letter-writing guides, or if I'm addressing a government official, I'll look for addressing guides (This page is my favourite: www.formsofaddress.info/FOA_ambassador_f.html)3- I write over the copied Japanese. I always translate in order, even if I get stck on something. 4- I'll do something else for a bit and re-read it a bunch of times. I'll usually do a first check reading only the English, then one checking against the Japanese, then another one for just the English. |
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Post by dr. pussy popper on May 15, 2019 12:08:00 GMT 9
Ohhhh this is interesting! I'll pitch in because the kind of material I translate isn't so political.
I mostly work with either decriptions relating to artwork/creative processes, or I help out the tourism department with writings for museums, tours, historical documents, etc. The language I work with tends to be artistic rather than straight-forward, so translations take a little longer.
1. I research the subject being written about, whether its the artist and their past works, or the material curated in a museum/ the museums purpose.
2. I read the material in its entirety and take notes so that I have the more holistic vision of the writing to took back to when I'm zeroing in on a part of it.
3. I don't really have any more link to add, the thesaurus and in-context websites listed above are essentially what I use.
4. Art related terms are often a little complicated, so if it's technical I SOUDAN it out with the technical staff so they can explain to me what a certain lighting setting is or what kind of stage layout an artist is referring to.
5. I don't tend to go in order if I'm stuck on something. Being stuck discourages me from finishing, so if I take bites and chunks out of a long translation in whatever order I see fit it get done quicker.
6. First draft is written in clunky English. Lots of run-on sentences and fragments because I'm trying to be as literal as possible; (idioms and more creative expressions have a definition attached).
7. I re-write the whole thing without consulting the Japanese, this time using creative liberties to get across the same tone as the original. Use appropriate idioms where I see fit, combine or chop up sentences where I see fit.
8. Consult the original Japanese one last time and we're ready to print, boys!
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