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Post by nowthat'safungusIcangetbehind on Jul 5, 2022 9:36:53 GMT 9
Hey folks,
I have a question.
I'm in the early stages of a long-term translation project for the cultural properties in this area.
I've been relying a lot on 観光庁 style guides when making translation decisions, but I haven't seen any consistency regarding「古墳」and「大塚古墳」.
How would you translate these words, if at all? Would a site called 円墳大塚古墳 best be translated as Enpun Otsuka Kofun Burial Mound？Is "tumulus" the proper term?
Finally, what's your preferred way of translating 「大ケヤキ」、「大杉」、and other big trees?
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tetraland
Straight outta Narita
Posts: 20 
CIR Experience: Former CIR
Location: Tokyo
Gender (Pronouns): she/her/hers
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Post by tetraland on Jul 5, 2022 10:03:30 GMT 9
hi hi! at my CO (a museum) we tend to use "ancient tumulus/tumuli" when referring to 古墳. as to whether we specify "Kofun-period tumulus/tumuli" depends on how the overall text is structured, how much supplementary text there is, and where it is being displayed, so that is up to your own judgement. there aren't any consistent national guidelines for this, so i think your best bet would be to have a system for your own project that is consistent throughout.
with respect to the 円墳大塚古墳 example specifically, i would translate it as "Enpun Ōtsuka tumulus".
hope this was helpful!
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Post by usamaru on Jul 5, 2022 10:50:05 GMT 9
hellooo, i'm in osaka where we have the mozu-furuichi kofun group which was registered as a unesco heritage site /celebration/ checking kofun related stuff is the bane of my existence because of how inconsistent translations are. we used to call it tumuli before it was registered with unesco! but according to the documents presented when it passed, 古墳 in japan are not technically considered tumuli so now we call them "kofun" or add "(ancient) mounded tomb" to aid understanding. however it's only been a few years in so a lot of our old stuff still say tumuli and i make an effort to get it fixed whenever i spot it, we would translate 大塚古墳 as Otsuka Kofun, although i understand there are probably many called this around japan. 円墳 is the classification of the shape (like 前方後円墳 and 帆立貝形墳) which we translate as "round kofun" so i'd imagine we would translate 円墳大塚古墳 as round-shaped Otsuka Kofun or maybe Otsuka Kofun (round-shaped) depending on the context? i'm ashamed that i can't link any useful english sites from my city but there is thismy knowledge is what has trickled down from the world heritage dept during my time here so i'm no expert but please feel free to ask for clarification! and good luck to you for the translation! |
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tetraland
Straight outta Narita
Posts: 20
CIR Experience: Former CIR
Location: Tokyo
Gender (Pronouns): she/her/hers
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Post by tetraland on Jul 5, 2022 11:38:17 GMT 9
hellooo, i'm in osaka where we have the mozu-furuichi kofun group which was registered as a unesco heritage site /celebration/ checking kofun related stuff is the bane of my existence because of how inconsistent translations are. we used to call it tumuli before it was registered with unesco! but according to the documents presented when it passed, 古墳 in japan are not technically considered tumuli so now we call them "kofun" or add "(ancient) mounded tomb" to aid understanding. however it's only been a few years in so a lot of our old stuff still say tumuli and i make an effort to get it fixed whenever i spot it, we would translate 大塚古墳 as Otsuka Kofun, although i understand there are probably many called this around japan. 円墳 is the classification of the shape (like 前方後円墳 and 帆立貝形墳) which we translate as "round kofun" so i'd imagine we would translate 円墳大塚古墳 as round-shaped Otsuka Kofun or maybe Otsuka Kofun (round-shaped) depending on the context? i'm ashamed that i can't link any useful english sites from my city but there is thismy knowledge is what has trickled down from the world heritage dept during my time here so i'm no expert but please feel free to ask for clarification! and good luck to you for the translation! omg i was confused about whether the 円墳 would be counted as part of its name as well!! bc it really is just describing the shape of it... but acc to adjacent soup (who does archaeology research), she said that in this particular case, the 円墳 seems to be used as part of the name of the tumulus so that it can be differentiated from the 方墳大塚古墳 in the same prefecture? |
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Post by usamaru on Jul 5, 2022 11:58:03 GMT 9
hellooo, i'm in osaka where we have the mozu-furuichi kofun group which was registered as a unesco heritage site /celebration/ checking kofun related stuff is the bane of my existence because of how inconsistent translations are. we used to call it tumuli before it was registered with unesco! but according to the documents presented when it passed, 古墳 in japan are not technically considered tumuli so now we call them "kofun" or add "(ancient) mounded tomb" to aid understanding. however it's only been a few years in so a lot of our old stuff still say tumuli and i make an effort to get it fixed whenever i spot it, we would translate 大塚古墳 as Otsuka Kofun, although i understand there are probably many called this around japan. 円墳 is the classification of the shape (like 前方後円墳 and 帆立貝形墳) which we translate as "round kofun" so i'd imagine we would translate 円墳大塚古墳 as round-shaped Otsuka Kofun or maybe Otsuka Kofun (round-shaped) depending on the context? i'm ashamed that i can't link any useful english sites from my city but there is thismy knowledge is what has trickled down from the world heritage dept during my time here so i'm no expert but please feel free to ask for clarification! and good luck to you for the translation! omg i was confused about whether the 円墳 would be counted as part of its name as well!! bc it really is just describing the shape of it... but acc to adjacent soup (who does archaeology research), she said that in this particular case, the 円墳 seems to be used as part of the name of the tumulus so that it can be differentiated from the 方墳大塚古墳 in the same prefecture? oooh in that case i understand putting it in the name. all our kofun have names which we just romanise btw. in your case, is it too much to translate the shape part of the name? |
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tetraland
Straight outta Narita
Posts: 20
CIR Experience: Former CIR
Location: Tokyo
Gender (Pronouns): she/her/hers
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Post by tetraland on Jul 5, 2022 12:32:19 GMT 9
omg i was confused about whether the 円墳 would be counted as part of its name as well!! bc it really is just describing the shape of it... but acc to adjacent soup (who does archaeology research), she said that in this particular case, the 円墳 seems to be used as part of the name of the tumulus so that it can be differentiated from the 方墳大塚古墳 in the same prefecture? oooh in that case i understand putting it in the name. all our kofun have names which we just romanise btw. in your case, is it too much to translate the shape part of the name? hmm i'm not OP so it's really up to them... the ones we deal with in my CO also have romanisable names too! haha Round ( enpun) Ōtsuka tumulus? |
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Post by usamaru on Jul 5, 2022 12:50:53 GMT 9
oooh in that case i understand putting it in the name. all our kofun have names which we just romanise btw. in your case, is it too much to translate the shape part of the name? hmm i'm not OP so it's really up to them... the ones we deal with in my CO also have romanisable names too! haha Round ( enpun) Ōtsuka tumulus? oop sorry! yeah i was thinking something like that if possible ^^ |
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Post by nowthat'safungusIcangetbehind on Jul 5, 2022 13:16:09 GMT 9
Bless you guys, this is really helpful! We don't have a ton of kofun in the area, but "hofun" part of the name is definitely considered part of the original title in Japanese. Based on your feedback and the unesco example, I'm thinking of just fulling romanizing the name to Hofun Otsuka Kofun in the header of the article/ digital plaque and adding (square mounded tomb) in the more detailed title section.
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Post by nowthat'safungusIcangetbehind on Jul 5, 2022 13:20:15 GMT 9
omg i was confused about whether the 円墳 would be counted as part of its name as well!! bc it really is just describing the shape of it... but acc to adjacent soup (who does archaeology research), she said that in this particular case, the 円墳 seems to be used as part of the name of the tumulus so that it can be differentiated from the 方墳大塚古墳 in the same prefecture? oooh in that case i understand putting it in the name. all our kofun have names which we just romanise btw. in your case, is it too much to translate the shape part of the name? Would something like Square Otsuka Kofun ( hofun otsuka kofun) or Round Otsuka Kofun Mounded Tomb be appropriate? |
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Post by usamaru on Jul 5, 2022 14:58:09 GMT 9
oooh in that case i understand putting it in the name. all our kofun have names which we just romanise btw. in your case, is it too much to translate the shape part of the name? Would something like Square Otsuka Kofun ( hofun otsuka kofun) or Round Otsuka Kofun Mounded Tomb be appropriate? i think either would be fine! i personally like Square Otsuka Kofun and using Square Otsuka Mounded Tomb if there's no room to explain what kofun is. it totally depends on how much hofun/enpun is considered part of the name and how much you want to keep it. Buuuuut, Hofun Otsuka Kofun is probably how we would translate it :( |
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Post by nowthat'safungusIcangetbehind on Jul 5, 2022 15:19:52 GMT 9
Would something like Square Otsuka Kofun ( hofun otsuka kofun) or Round Otsuka Kofun Mounded Tomb be appropriate? i think either would be fine! i personally like Square Otsuka Kofun and using Square Otsuka Mounded Tomb if there's no room to explain what kofun is. it totally depends on how much hofun/enpun is considered part of the name and how much you want to keep it. Buuuuut, Hofun Otsuka Kofun is probably how we would translate it  Yeah, it looks like transliteration is the precedent here, too. Ohhhhhh wellllllll. Thanks for all your insights!!! |
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