|
|
Post by no yark shark on Aug 4, 2016 11:58:11 GMT 9
You're using As as in "because" right?
○○City received the Commissioner for Cultural Affairs Award in 2013 thanks to (mayor)'s efforts to incorporate culture and art into urban development. Some of his initiatives, such as the △△ Art Festival first held in 2009, have been widely praised. Sorry for playing around with it so much... In general I am a big fan of splitting up longish sentences. oh yeah that's why it was bothering me at the beginning. I agree that it sounds nice broken up like that. |
|
|
|
Post by Miscreative on Aug 4, 2016 13:03:30 GMT 9
You're using As as in "because" right? ○○City received the Commissioner for Cultural Affairs Award in 2013 thanks to (mayor)'s efforts to incorporate culture and art into urban development. Some of his initiatives, such as the △△ Art Festival first held in 2009, have been widely praised. Sorry for playing around with it so much... In general I am a big fan of splitting up longish sentences. やっぱり imma steal this thank you~ edit that said, i am giving super two options. this one and the other to show more of the cause and effect between his initiatives and the awards |
|
|
|
Post by CaptainSeery on Aug 5, 2016 10:59:54 GMT 9
Okay, so I'm having a SMACKDOWN with 部長 over the word "facility."
In an aisatsu, I translated a sentence as "The Minamata Environmental Academia will be a central facility where researchers and students such as yourselves can stay and conduct research in Minamata."
He argues that facility should be in the plural, "will be central facilities where...." His note says たとえ建物が１つあっても複数形をしようしています。facilityは施設という意味で使うときは、通常複数形を使います。His examples are "sports facilities" and "leisure facilities"
I think it would sound strange to put this particular example in the plural. If it was slightly different (The Academia offers facilities for researchers and students...) it would be fine, but I think that it sounds strange in this occasion, although I can't pinpoint why.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by Miscreative on Aug 5, 2016 11:05:40 GMT 9
yea, if the academy as a 複合施設 then i would question the use of singular vs plural but in this case it is definitely singular to me. you can argue for plural? like, surely they have more than one type of room that can be used... blah blah but singular is fine to me edit. adding to his examples... if you are talking about things in general, like no yark shark said, you are gonna use the plural more? |
|
|
|
Post by no yark shark on Aug 5, 2016 11:14:22 GMT 9
because his examples are general concepts whereas in the aisatsu you're talking about a specific place?
|
|
|
|
Post by Caic on Aug 5, 2016 11:16:57 GMT 9
i love it when ELAI japanese people argue with native speakers about english
|
|
|
|
Post by Miscreative on Aug 5, 2016 11:24:22 GMT 9
i love it when ELAI japanese people argue with native speakers about english agreed but to be fair, there are many times where native intuition is different from prescriptive rules that said i get fed up real quick when these questions arent coming from my supervisor who is better than me at everything but even then there are some cases where prescriptivity doesnt matter? in which case i'm just like... "A sounds better and i dont know why. can we just go with that tho?" |
|
|
|
Post by marudate on Aug 5, 2016 11:24:58 GMT 9
Well if it would make the fellow happy you could write it in a way that would be plural (as you pointed out):
"The Minamata Environmental Academy offers facilities where researchers and students can stay and conduct research in Minamata."
However, the sentence as written should be singular, because the "a" and "central" is referring to the singular academy.
I think if the sports or leisure facilities are single buildings and if "facility" is referring to buildings rather than activities within, they should be singular as well. If facility is referring to say, both outdoor fields an indoor pool, ("X Sports park features numerous sports facilities"), I suppose the plural is fine. You couldn't say "central sports facilities" in this case either I think.
Either it is a facility or it has facilities.
|
|
|
|
Post by CaptainSeery on Aug 5, 2016 12:55:05 GMT 9
Thank you!!! I am glad to see that you agree with me. Bucho's written English is quite good and he knows so much more about grammar than I do but he does tend to stick way too hard to those prescriptivist rules. And his spoken English is shit and he has no intuition for when something just sounds off the way a native speaker does. The aisatsu already happened so it's a moot point, I just felt the need to prove that I am right in this particular instance. marudate, I think that's exactly it. I did some quick googling of "sports facility" and found that Berkley's fitness center is known as the Recreational Sports Facility. You'd think Berkley of all places would have that right, でしょ? I am going to stick to my guns on this one. |
|
|
|
Post by marudate on Aug 5, 2016 16:32:53 GMT 9
You should stick to your guns. Gaikoku is famous for guns.
Anyway, see if you can reroute his efforts to ensuring the translation itself captures the essence of the Japanese and hopefully steer him away from attempting to check English grammar or second-guess style choices. He probably wants to feel useful or important.
|
|
|
|
Post by CaptainSeery on Aug 8, 2016 8:47:47 GMT 9
I will try, but i fear that's a hopeless task... he is all about the grammar and tiny little choices. He questions me about things like a/the all the time (but at least with those he tends to accept my choices.) He also nitpicks about Japanese grammar to all of my colleages. Things like okurigana usage and if a word should be in kanji or kana in a particular situation. All my coworkers seem to agree that he takes these things too far.
|
|
|
|
Post by marudate on Aug 8, 2016 13:41:09 GMT 9
Well, as long as everyone knows he's crazy ; )
One thought on not letting him run the show, I think if he wants to talk the technical side of English grammar, don't engage directly but push back with the connotative sense of the words, rhythm of the sentence, word play, sound of the words, etc. Focus on English as a humanities subject and a spoken language rather than some sort of linguistic puzzle to analyze and dissect. I doubt he will enjoy or be able to discuss any of these matters. For a while it may be a stalemate but I think it's a war of attrition.
There is no such thing as correct grammar and usage drives the evolution of language anyway (not linguists!)
|
|
|
|
Post by CaptainSeery on Aug 8, 2016 14:03:31 GMT 9
Linguists aren't the ones making these rules - linguists are descriptivists, not prescriptivists. Linguists find the evolution of language fascinating and love studying it. But yes, I agree. I will try this approach.  |
|
Shimanchu 2024
Well you can tell by the way I use my star I'm a woman's star, no time to star. Music loud and starring stars I been starred around, since I was star.
中年危機イン沖
Posts: 6,892
CIR Experience: ULTIMATE UNICORN (6th year)
Location: Okinawa
|
Post by Shimanchu 2024 on Aug 9, 2016 15:36:29 GMT 9
How would you guys rephrase this sentence regarding an international art festival?
"The event features works that reflect the history and unique culture of various countries and regions, including those created by artists in South America, Africa, and the Middle East that have rarely been seen in Japan.
Mostly the bolded part. Even though I understand it perfectly, YEIGO TANTO lady insists that it makes it sound like the bolded part is referring to the artists from South America etc.
Even though I can understand it, I have to come up with something to satisfy her
YOLOSIK
|
|
|
|
Post by Miscreative on Aug 9, 2016 15:53:48 GMT 9
How would you guys rephrase this sentence regarding an international art festival? "The event features works that reflect the history and unique culture of various countries and regions, including those created by artists in South America, Africa, and the Middle East that have rarely been seen in Japan. Mostly the bolded part. Even though I understand it perfectly, YEIGO TANTO lady insists that it makes it sound like the bolded part is referring to the artists from South America etc. Even though I can understand it, I have to come up with something to satisfy her YOLOSIK reading the original, i get that the rarely seen works are either from the middle east or from all. wait. all is what you are shooting for? keep is as is or "The event features works that reflect the history and unique culture of various countries and regions (including ones) that have rarely been seen in Japan such as those created by artists in South America, Africa, and the Middle East." |
|
Shimanchu 2024
Well you can tell by the way I use my star I'm a woman's star, no time to star. Music loud and starring stars I been starred around, since I was star.
中年危機イン沖
Posts: 6,892
CIR Experience: ULTIMATE UNICORN (6th year)
Location: Okinawa
|
Post by Shimanchu 2024 on Aug 9, 2016 15:55:36 GMT 9
How would you guys rephrase this sentence regarding an international art festival? "The event features works that reflect the history and unique culture of various countries and regions, including those created by artists in South America, Africa, and the Middle East that have rarely been seen in Japan. Mostly the bolded part. Even though I understand it perfectly, YEIGO TANTO lady insists that it makes it sound like the bolded part is referring to the artists from South America etc. Even though I can understand it, I have to come up with something to satisfy her YOLOSIK reading the original, i get that the rarely seen works are either from the middle east or from all. wait. all is what you are shooting for? keep is as is or "The event features works that reflect the history and unique culture of various countries and regions (including ones) that have rarely been seen in Japan such as those created by artists in South America, Africa, and the Middle East."
Thx, this sounds good too.
But we ended up just reconstructing the paragraph it was in completely hue.
|
|
|
|
Post by marudate on Aug 9, 2016 15:56:16 GMT 9
? "including those that" can't refer to artists as the subject is works.
Anyway, what about:
"The event features works rarely seen in Japan that reflect the history and unique culture of various countries and regions, including pieces created by artists in South America, Africa, and the Middle East."
|
|
Shimanchu 2024
Well you can tell by the way I use my star I'm a woman's star, no time to star. Music loud and starring stars I been starred around, since I was star.
中年危機イン沖
Posts: 6,892
CIR Experience: ULTIMATE UNICORN (6th year)
Location: Okinawa
|
Post by Shimanchu 2024 on Aug 10, 2016 9:27:03 GMT 9
? "including those that" can't refer to artists as the subject is works. Anyway, what about: "The event features works rarely seen in Japan that reflect the history and unique culture of various countries and regions, including pieces created by artists in South America, Africa, and the Middle East."
I actually suggested this verbatim to her!
But she was like, 正しくない, 意味が違う
Thing is, she actually is a near native-level speaker, and she's been here doing translation professionally for over 20 years.
So like, I can't easily tell her "no, you're wrong" unless I'm prepared to put my head on the chopping block and have a very convincing argument to back me up.
....... needless to say, it can be a very stressful environment for the Love Knowledge CIR
|
|
|
|
Post by Miscreative on Aug 10, 2016 9:29:29 GMT 9
How is that any differeeeeeeeeent
|
|
Shimanchu 2024
Well you can tell by the way I use my star I'm a woman's star, no time to star. Music loud and starring stars I been starred around, since I was star.
中年危機イン沖
Posts: 6,892
CIR Experience: ULTIMATE UNICORN (6th year)
Location: Okinawa
|
Post by Shimanchu 2024 on Aug 10, 2016 9:31:17 GMT 9
How is that any differeeeeeeeeent
Thank you my good hulemdo
Thank you..... 
|
|
|
|
Post by Miscreative on Aug 10, 2016 9:33:23 GMT 9
have her explain it to you next time. if you have to back up your 提案 she should hers too.  |
|
|
|
Post by CaptainSeery on Aug 10, 2016 10:23:06 GMT 9
I think marudate's suggestion sounds so much better >_< How is the 意味違う? |
|
Shimanchu 2024
Well you can tell by the way I use my star I'm a woman's star, no time to star. Music loud and starring stars I been starred around, since I was star.
中年危機イン沖
Posts: 6,892
CIR Experience: ULTIMATE UNICORN (6th year)
Location: Okinawa
|
Post by Shimanchu 2024 on Aug 10, 2016 10:27:58 GMT 9
I think marudate 's suggestion sounds so much better >_< How is the 意味違う?
MINNA
ALIGATO 
|
|
|
|
Post by CaptainSeery on Aug 23, 2016 14:52:11 GMT 9
Do any of you know the word "solatium"?
I'm not asking for the defintion, I'm asking if you'll know the meaning of it if you were to see it in a document. It does sound like the most concise way of saying what they are trying to say, but it is such a rare word that I want to change it. I like just "compensation."
どう思う？
|
|
|
|
Post by Caic on Aug 23, 2016 14:55:01 GMT 9
never seen this before
|
|
|
|
Post by CaptainSeery on Aug 23, 2016 15:12:16 GMT 9
FYI the definition is: "a thing given to someone as a compensation or consolation."
So I'm just going to go with "compensation."
|
|
Nurkiras
Dead Stargod 
Nawty Bard
ycdn
Posts: 8,401 
|
Post by Nurkiras on Aug 23, 2016 15:36:05 GMT 9
My computer doesn't think solatium is a word. Neither do I hue
|
|
|
|
Post by marudate on Aug 24, 2016 8:51:36 GMT 9
Never heard of it. A legal term?
|
|
Nurkiras
Dead Stargod
Nawty Bard
ycdn
Posts: 8,401
|
Post by Nurkiras on Aug 24, 2016 8:56:24 GMT 9
|
|
|
|
Post by CaptainSeery on Aug 24, 2016 9:15:05 GMT 9
Well, if you go to ALC and put in 見舞金 you get consolation payment, consolatory payment, solatium, or sympathy money. I assume that's why. They seem to want to avoid using words that specifically mention "money" which is why I think they avoided the other options. Although the word 見舞金 has 金 in it so I don't know why it's such a problem. I'm going with compensation over consolation payment because a) it does imply money anyway, and b) it was money that the perpetraters of Minamata disease were required to pay to victims after several lawsuits and settlements. Consolation sounds like there's more sympathy involved, and also because it sounds (to me anyway) strange to use for the company that was at fault. Compensation sounds more like the real thing - it was paid by the people at fault to the victims in compensation for the health damages and effects on their daily lives. |
|
